tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post1509872202588087602..comments2023-06-04T03:58:02.763-04:00Comments on He Said/She Said: He Said: Retreats and SymposiaBored in Vernalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16930954374449121797noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-27865555262874629822009-06-19T19:33:03.158-04:002009-06-19T19:33:03.158-04:00Dr. B., and you read it? Groovy. Remind me to co...Dr. B., and you read it? Groovy. Remind me to continue my paranoia (well-founde) of Mormon doctors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-19211131803538011532009-06-18T09:27:36.977-04:002009-06-18T09:27:36.977-04:00Anonymous:
Not true I was standing in her living ...Anonymous:<br /><br />Not true I was standing in her living room where a mattress was on the floor and saw the note on the credenza with the letter spread out open on the top of the credenza. I later saw the same note in a different place on another occasion that I won't go in to here.Dr. Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18061544604584544836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-85140227643279079102009-06-17T18:13:42.718-04:002009-06-17T18:13:42.718-04:00You went snooping around your wife's friend...You went snooping around your wife's friend's house and read her private note?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-91844001438447811442009-06-14T03:50:09.154-04:002009-06-14T03:50:09.154-04:00Now that Elder Ballard tells me to support BiV I a...<i>Now that Elder Ballard tells me to support BiV I am blogging on this blog which is as close as I really want to get to liberals.</i><br /><br />What, are liberals lepers? Do you think liberalism is contagious?Steve M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06261411264695719660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-76301964099526322722009-06-13T23:51:41.792-04:002009-06-13T23:51:41.792-04:00Thanks for putting yourself out there, Dr. B. I s...Thanks for putting yourself out there, Dr. B. I sympathize with your frustration over your wife's changes. I admire your ability to tolerate that.<br /><br />You probably know that President Hinckley has instructed us to no longer advice gay Saints to marry straight women. That used to be the practice of many bishops and mission presidents and devastated many lives. May be, you can agree that President Hinckley took a step in the right direction.<br /><br />It is difficult for adolescents to figure out how to relate to their sexuality responsibly. That is why it is so important that adults in their lives can provide them with relevant and accurate information.<br /><br />Children tend to get into trouble when parents, teachers, and clergy are in denial, refuse to speak about sexuality openly, or distribute prejudiced or superstitious information.<br /><br />The nature of homosexuality is really an empirical question. We can determine what is true or false on the merits of the evidence.<br /><br />I know that Elder Packer means well. Unfortunately, it is also clear that he has not considered the available evidence. That leads me to conclude that his text reflect his personal opinions, not the word of God.<br /><br />As you know, it is quite common for LDS leaders to proclaim their personal opinions. Sometimes, personal opinions are right, sometimes not. In the end, it is up to us to determine what is best for us and our families.Hellmuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01666302780491649128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-52046586145257017452009-06-12T14:01:58.073-04:002009-06-12T14:01:58.073-04:00ABH--I am one of "them". I work with the...ABH--I am one of "them". I work with them on a daily basis in my profession, which seems to have a higher percentage of gays and lesbians, and my calling in the church is specifically geared toward my mingling with and nurturing those with SSA. Those who say they have chosen to be gay or have become gay have simply acknowledged feelings that were inherent. Some might also feel heterosexual attraction equally or to a greater or lesser degree. But in order to "become" gay, one must already have the inclinations. <br /><br />Also, I did not mean to infer that one should condone free love, nor that chastity and fidelity were not important. I'm simply saying, the woman who has divorced is not dead yet. Our job is to show love even when the way she chooses to live her life is not what we believe the Lord would have her choose. My sister spent years outside the church because she felt she was not welcome to come back. Of course, this opens up the question of perception verses reality, but still, I think the Lord would be wish for us to reach out in any way possible to those who are acting in ways we see as sinful or rebellious.<br /><br />Again, I apologize if this is detracting from the original purpose of the blog post. Obviously, it's important to me.Samanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216416424593449924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-15709518699084986502009-06-12T13:25:21.944-04:002009-06-12T13:25:21.944-04:00Agreed with Dr. B. If you don't think people c...Agreed with Dr. B. If you don't think people can become gay, then you haven't known very many of them.ABHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-68859607162126788082009-06-12T11:44:08.072-04:002009-06-12T11:44:08.072-04:00Samantha:
I appreciate your feelings on this matt...Samantha:<br /><br />I appreciate your feelings on this matter. I have some gay acquaintances that actually give me a different perspective. I had one man that worked for me that told me up front and unabashedly that he choose to be gay. I suspect that for some it is biologically hardwired but for others like my friend who referred to himself as a "bad boy" as he would describe his different relationships that he likes to be a little bit naughty. In the case of SSA I think many of those who fight it tend to be the hardwired types. I am not for exclusion of gays and consider them children of our Heavenly Father. I have more respect for those who can maintain marriages despite feelings of attraction for members of the same sex. As to my being critical to my wife's friend she seems to go from one relationship to another. If she were in a committed relationship I might be more sympathetic or if she got married. Christ actually decries adultery or fornication where he says they are the only accepted reasons for divorce. I think he meant that for all kinds of marriages or if you are not religious relationships. I can't do much about biblical sanctions like Paul makes or LDS policies and frankly I agree with them. I'm just not in to free love. I don't believe pressure will force religious groups like the LDS to change their perspective and the gay issue is totally different than former priesthood issues that are now corrected.Dr. Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18061544604584544836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-23005666845578838552009-06-12T11:30:27.570-04:002009-06-12T11:30:27.570-04:00Samantha, thank you for this thoughtful comment, a...Samantha, thank you for this thoughtful comment, and for the link to Kim's blog. Dr. B. and I have decided to tackle the subject of same sex attraction and the Church soon.Bored in Vernalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14016611721544251941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1663941132319374651.post-17897041024362163462009-06-12T09:42:20.684-04:002009-06-12T09:42:20.684-04:00One of her close friends who was married and had f...<i>One of her close friends who was married and had four children decided she would leave her husband of twenty-five years and become a lesbian. The two had known each other as young mothers in La Leche League and networked together. I recognized her propensity for becoming gay right from the beginning when one of her friends or relatives was receiving shock therapy for being gay and she spoke out harshly against the Church psychologists who were helping him.</i><br /><br />While I understand that many people in the church still cling to the belief that people "choose" to "become" gay or lesbian, I think it's important to recognize that those feelings are not chosen--they simply <i>are</i>. If you are referring to the behavior of the woman, then there is a distinct tone of judgment and harshness directed toward a state of being you cannot understand. While I am not suggesting you condone her choice to leave her marriage and seek out a mate she felt more comfortable with, I am suggesting that a more charitable view might be taken, and judgment left to her clergy, who will know the details of her experiences and temper that judgment with appropriate mercy.<br /><br />I understand your concerns about your wife's interaction with this person. I think it's important to note that unless your wife is also SGA, or unless she feels a need to experiment sexually, nothing could ever happen. I reiterate, people do not "become" gay. Those feelings are not chosen. If you are speaking of the lifestyle choice of seeking out a same-sex partner, that is a reference to behavior, and not to the state of feeling attracted to members of one's own gender. Our church leaders have made it very clear that there is a distinction between the feelings and the actions. In my view, your wife's decision to continue her friendship with a woman who was likely ostracized and excluded by other church members because of her lifestyle choices, was Christlike and unexpected. I am grateful for people like her.<br /><br />While I don't know the continued story of the woman in your post, I encourage you to look at the life of Kim Nordyke Mack (who blogs at http://how-i-deal.blogspot.com/). There are others like her, of course, but she is one who is willing to share her story in print and online, and is therefore accessible. <br /><br />I understand that this was not the point of your post, and don't really wish to detract from that. I do hope, however, that you'll consider what I've said. There are many of us who experience SGA who live among you. Those of us who remain active in the church also remain silent about our heavy burden because of the misconceptions and judgments of brothers and sisters who are comfortable believing statements such as the ones I cited at the beginning of this comment. And I'm wondering, had the woman you speak of felt free to talk of the feelings that were causing her stress, perhaps her needs might have been met, her burden shared, and some heartache in her family mitigated. <br /><br />It's all conjecture, of course, but a side, nonetheless, I feel bears exploring.Samanthahttp://bewitchedtoo.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com